EPISODE 31
Into the Unknown
Meet Giacomo Turco, an aerospace engineer from Italy, who on this episode shares his thrilling bikepacking adventures across Iceland, Mongolia, and South America. Discover how a chance encounter on Instagram with a previous guest, Melanie Schautt, led to an unexpected friendship and shared adventures, including Giacomo’s terrifying brake failure in the Andes. Other near-disasters in South America followed, as Giacomo had to be hospitalized due to a bacterial infection, faced a blizzard whiteout at 5,000 meters in Peru, and pedaled for days without human contact on the Ruta de los Seismiles in Argentina. In the communities he visited, Giacomo experienced incredible hospitality, participating in traditional ceremonies and being offered shelter, food, and “lightly alcoholic beverages.” Giacomo’s passion for exploring uncharted territories and pushing his limits shines through as he discusses his unconventional approach to bikepacking and teases his next grand adventure. Prepare to be inspired and entertained by this captivating storyteller and his insatiable thirst for the unknown.
Episode Transcript
Giacomo: Because the concept of “beyond” is something that really also appeals to me, that defines me, and yeah, the idea of exploring new frontiers and pushing your limit, that’s really me.
Gabriel: You just heard Giacomo Turco, an aerospace engineer from Italy, describe his enthusiasm for traveling beyond the big cities, beyond the organized Jeep tours, beyond the land that has been fenced off by its owners. Giacomo’s mission is both to discover very remote areas of the planet that remain untouched by most tourists, and to learn about the people who live there. Although he does not consider himself an athlete, Giacomo has overcome daunting obstacles while cycling across Iceland, Mongolia, and South America. Now, he is about to embark on another, even more ambitious, two-wheeled project, which he calls, “the ultimate ride into the unknown.”
Sandra: You’re listening to The Accidental Bicycle Tourist. In this podcast, you’ll meet people from all walks of life and learn about their most memorable bike touring experiences. This is your host, Gabriel Aldaz.
Gabriel: Hello, cycle touring enthusiasts! Welcome to another episode of The Accidental Bicycle Tourist. For those of you who listened carefully to the episode titled “Salt Flat Tires: A Bikepacking Roller Coaster Ride,” you may recall that guest Melanie Schautt mentioned an Italian bikepacker whom she and her friend Luise met, not once, but twice, during their South American adventures. The Italian bikepacker’s name was Giacomo, and shortly after the episode dropped, I was contacted by someone with that name. And not just any Giacomo, but THE Giacomo, who’s got plenty of his own bikepacking adventures to share on today’s episode. Giacomo Turco, thank you so much for being a guest on The Accidental Bicycle Tourist podcast.
Giacomo: Thank you so much for having me. Really happy to be here. Thank you.
Gabriel: It’s always fun to see things from a different perspective, so we’re going to kick off this episode by doing just that. Can you recall the moment when you met Melanie and Luise? Where were you? What were you doing?
Giacomo: Yeah, basically, I mean, it was kind of planned, roughly, because I was still in Argentina, I was in San MartÃn de los Andes, and Melanie and Luise were, like, just across the border in Chile, and they were just like taking some rest close to Curarrehue. Yeah, basically, they said, “Yeah, if our paths are going to cross, it would be nice to spend some time together.” And so I just said, “Okay, why not?” And I just crossed into Chile, and yeah, from there, we started cycling all together.
Gabriel: I’m a little confused, though. You seem to have met virtually.
Giacomo: Yeah, we met on Instagram, basically. I was following Melanie, and then, yeah, we’re just following each other, and then we just realized that we were like pretty close. So we just said, okay, let’s just meet physically.
Gabriel: All right, I see. You’re a new generation now.
Giacomo: Yeah, yeah.
Gabriel: When I bike tour, I don’t meet people first on Instagram. Basically, I’m sitting around somewhere, and somebody shows up. That’s how I meet other bikepackers.
Giacomo: I’m also more, let’s say, on this side, I have to say. This is one of the really few times in my life that this happened to me.
Gabriel: Okay.
Giacomo: But yeah, I also understand your point of view.
Gabriel: Yeah, but hey, that’s the modern way to do it. Some people even have trackers on that show their location on the planet at all times.
Giacomo: You’re right.
Gabriel: Okay, and so you decided to meet up?
Giacomo: Yes, a lot of things happen, because in those days, actually, I crashed, because my brakes were not working. So I was really happy to be around Luise and Melanie, and I had a really good time with them since the very beginnings.
Gabriel: You said that your brakes had failed. That was before you met up?
Giacomo: No, it was right after, because we started cycling all together. Then Luise was going a bit faster, so she just like went all the way. So I remained with Melanie, and we had to go down to arrive to Melipeuco. And basically what happened is that apparently my brakes were not, like, attached well. Yeah, so basically the disc was touching only the tip of the brake pads. Yeah, with the friction, only the first part of the brake pads was actually used to brake. So I found myself basically going with it almost forty, fifty kilometers per hour with the brakes that were not working. And the problem is that my bike is very heavy. I mean, it was very heavy. And with only the front brake, I was not able to stop the bike. So I mean, it was really a moment of true… true fear. It was one of the moments in my life in which I felt the biggest fear, because you really realize that you cannot stop the bike. We were like on a dirt road, so the road was totally an asphalt. I was getting faster and faster, and the bike was also more and more unstable. I was hoping to find like a way to kind of stop the bike somehow, maybe with an uphill. There was no uphill to save myself. So at some point, there was just basically a cliff. So at that point, I just realized in one second that was like, okay, either I jump from the bike or I go down the cliff, because the turn was really sharp, and I was going just too fast to follow the road. And so yeah, I mean, I just jumped. I just like pushed myself on the floor. I had three jackets and all of them really broke, and I had like blood on the knees, on the arms. The impact gave me a stronger vibration to the neck. But I was really lucky, because I didn’t break anything. It was amazing for me to have Melanie there, and later also Luise. I really love traveling by myself, but when, like, bad things happen, and you’re like people, they really care about you, it’s really like a different deal. And yeah, then I mean, we found somebody that gave us a lift back down to the town, and then I went to the hospital, and in the end, I mean, we stayed there like two, three days in this small town. I was really lucky because it could have been probably the end of my journey.
Gabriel: Definitely.
Giacomo: Yeah, it was less than three months from the start. I really feel like a lucky situation in the end. I was so scared.
Gabriel: Yeah, if it was going to happen, then I think you picked a good time to have this terrible event happen.
Giacomo: Yeah, maybe.
Gabriel: Whew. Melanie said she could relate to the term “accidental bicycle tourist,” and she thought that you might also relate to it. I hope she didn’t mean because you tended to get into accidents. I hope it was just because you started bikepacking by chance, she said. So can you tell a little bit more about that?
Giacomo: Yeah, so basically my first bike tour was in 2021. I basically finished all my studies, and I wanted to go for a, yeah, for a big adventure, and it was still like the COVID time, so most of the destinations were not really possible. So I kind of had to think well about what to do. I realized that actually I could go to Iceland, because also without the vaccine, you could do like a quarantine of five days, and then you were free to go. I actually never thought about really traveling my bike. I just knew that I enjoyed cycling in general, because I grew up in a small town, close to Verona in Italy. Yeah, in Valpolicella exactly. It’s an area that is really famous for the production of wine. The bike for me was always something that gave me freedom to go where I want, to meet my friends, but I never really thought about, okay, I can really travel with the bike. And when I was in Japan, because I did my master’s thesis in Japan, in Tokyo, I was talking with my supervisor, and he was saying, “Yeah, sometimes I go traveling by bike, I really enjoy it like this.” This was something that started kind of spinning in my mind, and I said, ooh, the bike seems like a cool way to travel. So I decided, okay, I will try with the bike, I will try in Iceland. But then all the things that lie in between the two things were like a big mess. Yeah, I don’t know, I spent like basically three months just like doing research about the gear, about what to bring, the route, but I mean, at the beginning, when you start, you are so lost, and also I think you really believe that you need to be good to kind of do it somehow, and I think it’s also good in the end to kind of do your best. When I started the journey, I made a lot of really bad decisions. For example, in Iceland, I didn’t have a proper rainproof jacket.
Gabriel: Oh.
Giacomo: This was really a big mistake.
Gabriel: That’s not good in Iceland. It rains.
Giacomo: Yeah, let’s say I made a lot of mistakes. I mean, in the end, I paid for this. I think that’s how you learn, probably. Yeah, it was like 50 days in Iceland. I also crossed the interior of Iceland, so I mean, I also did with a bike that was not suitable for this, but I had luck, I went through. When I came back from Iceland, I was like, wow, I really like this, and it was such an intense holiday that I really realized that I really wanted to add more.
Gabriel: So Iceland, a 50-day journey, that was your first expedition into the unknown. You didn’t do a five-day tour around Verona or something, you just went for it.
Giacomo: Yeah.
Gabriel: That says a lot about what you’re interested in.
Giacomo: Yeah. At the beginning, the idea, honestly, was to cycle around Italy. That would have been a really different experience, but this is also like, I don’t know, it’s an aspect that in this journey that I did in South America exploded. That is really that I really get excited about things that are really difficult and extreme, and that I don’t know if I will be able to handle them. And this really is something that really boosts something inside me and gives me a lot of motivation to be prepared to do my best in general. But yeah, I think already this says a lot about me.
Gabriel: Yeah. Just for the background, what did you study in university?
Giacomo: I’m a space engineer, so I studied aerospace engineering. So I did my three years in Milan of the bachelor, and then I did my master in Sweden, in Stockholm. And then I did my thesis in Japan, at the Japanese Space Agency.
Gabriel: Oh, nice. I studied mechanical engineering. I actually started off as aerospace, but my advisor told me there are a lot more jobs in mechanical engineering than aerospace engineering.
Giacomo: Yeah, that’s right, for sure.
Gabriel: I said, “okay,” and I switched. I guess there was something about you that you had to break away from just the usual track that, okay, you did your bachelor’s, you did your master’s, now you get a job. You wanted to break out of that cycle, I guess, or maybe at least have a pause in it to do some explorations.
Giacomo: That’s right. The thing is that after Iceland, I started to work, and I really liked the job. I really liked the company I was working for. Everything was really nice. The company was young, I was having a lot of flexibility, but at the same time, I don’t know, every day, when I was looking out of the window, and I was imagining all the amazing things that were happening on the planet, and I was just thinking, okay, but yeah. Here in front of the laptop the whole day, for five days a week, I don’t know, I just couldn’t live with this. Yeah, and I always wanted to do a big trip, see the world, and know the cultures. I really needed to get to a certain age to understand what I wanted, and also have the courage maybe to do what you really feel, because before, you’re kind of in the big pattern, like, okay, you have to study, you have to get a job, blah, blah. But then you reach a point in which, yeah, you’re like, okay, if I really want to do it, or I do it now, or I don’t do it. You can do what you feel, but for me it was like, okay, this is the moment.
Gabriel: So it sounds like as soon as you returned from Iceland, you were already starting to dream about your next adventure, and where was that?
Giacomo: Yeah, the second trip I did was in Mongolia.
Gabriel: Of course!
Giacomo: Another long shot. Or you go big, or you go home.
Gabriel: Very good.
Giacomo: And that also was like another big leap of like, okay, I’m not prepared for this, because I had experience in Iceland, but still, Iceland is a western country with like everything you can find inside. You can find bike shop, you can find components, you can find food. When I’m in Mongolia was like another level. Okay, you will not find a gas cartridge, you will just find the gasoline, and that’s it. When you cross the steppe, I mean, you have no signals, so you have to be ready for this. You have to bring all your spare parts. From this point of view, was also pretty challenging, and I just basically booked the flight in April, and I was flying in July, so like, oh shit.
Gabriel: Where am I? I’m on my way to Mongolia.
Giacomo: Yeah, I mean, it was like, okay, not going out anymore, just staying at home every weekend, because I really had to improve.
Gabriel: And as far as route planning in Mongolia, obviously you landed in the capital, Ulaanbaatar, and then did you know where you were going or did you… it sounds like you may have just started riding in a random direction. Tell me how you did it.
Giacomo: Mongolia, the thing is that when you’re crossing the steppe, the concept of road and trail, dirt road, I mean, it’s a really abstract concept. If you go on the main roads, okay, you find something, but if you start exploring, I don’t know, just spend nights like watching like the Google Earth and like, okay, here there is a river, here there is a mountain. That’s the thing I like, it’s like the adventure, the unknown. In the end, the route I made, I did like the Khangai Traverse, that is also on backpacking.com. That is a really beautiful route, that crosses the Khangai Mountains. And then I added like my own special part, so I went up, like maybe up to 20 kilometers with the border with Russia, so like basically, circumnavigating the Khövsgöl Lake, that is like a really super remote lake where nobody goes, and that part was really incredible adventure.
Gabriel: Sounds amazing.
Giacomo: I mean, also Mongolia, the nature and crossing the steppe by bike was an amazing experience that really changed me. But at the same time, I had a new part of the journey that for me has been really, really important, that is the encounters with the people. Because for me, the two things that I love about bikepacking is really – or traveling by bike in general – is really, like, see the nature and knowing myself, but also, like, meeting the people, knowing the cultures. I think the bike is a beautiful way to travel, because you’re vulnerable, and people kind of see that you’re vulnerable, and they really do their best to connect with you, to help you, because it’s not the same as just arriving with a pickup. Of course, like people see that you’re just like a desperate on a bike, that you’re trying to survive. So I mean, in Mongolia, I was hosted many times inside the gers, that are the typical tents of Mongolia, and the Mongolian hospitality is incredible. And you really see people that live in a very, very simple way, and they would give you everything they have to you. I mean, in the end, you’re just a rich, Western person.
Gabriel: What’s one of your favorite anecdotes about people that you met in Mongolia? It sounds like you had a very positive experience there.
Giacomo: People go around either by horse or with a motorbike, and when they see you on a bike, they just don’t understand what’s happening. For them, it’s just really unreal, in a way. They just cannot understand the way a person would just go around with a bike, because they’re like, okay, you can go with a horse, with a motorbike, and they’re really excited about seeing you. Everybody wants to take a picture with you. Like, one thing that I really struggled with in Mongolia was like the language. The English level is like zero, and of course, I didn’t know anything about Mongolian. Yeah, it was just really about interpretation of human signs and like gesture and like understanding of the moment. Eating, sleeping, drinking, and that’s it. Like, really basic stuff. In the end, that’s everything you need to live. I mean, you need food, the water, water, and a place to sleep, and that’s it. All the rest is just not what you really need.
Gabriel: Details.
Giacomo: Yeah. They invite you in their houses. And I was invited to this ceremony that is basically the cutting of the hair of the son. That is basically like a baptism. We could see this way from a Western point of view. That is basically a ritual of passage in which the small child when like reaches, I don’t know, an older age, has like this cut of hair that basically represents and now is growing and is on the path of becoming a man. It was an incredible ceremony. I don’t know, I really felt like I was part of the family. And I think one of the things that I really enjoyed the most of Mongolia is the fact that like people drink a lot, and especially like in the surroundings, people drink a lot. It’s very common to drink from the same cup. Usually it’s done like this. So basically, they fill your cup all the way and then the cup is given to each person and each person kind of drinks the amount feels like drinking. That could be, like, ending the cup or like just having a sip, and then like it gives it back, and then it’s refilled one more time and then given to the next person. So in this way, I mean, like, you have a really an atmosphere of like sharing and also it’s not like, okay, you have to finish it all. It’s just everything is very fast and people really feel connected. And it’s something that for example in Italy we don’t have, because everybody has coffee from their own cup or wine from their own cup and having the same cup I think is really something that connects you.
Gabriel: Definitely. Now you say “drink,” I’m curious can you tell a little bit more about what exactly it is that you’re drinking?
Giacomo: A really typical drink is like basically fermented milk from the female of the horse. Now I don’t know the English word for this.
Gabriel: The mare?
Giacomo: I don’t know, I trust you.
Gabriel: All right. Okay, so it’s horse milk, fermented horse milk.
Giacomo: Yeah, it’s lightly alcoholic, not too strong, and this is like the really the most common drink you can have. That is, just everybody has this. And then I mean of course they have the vodka, but that’s more like it’s more expensive. Most of the time people don’t prepare it by themselves but it’s that they have to buy it, so it’s something that’s more fancy in a way. And well, I mean the horse milk, everybody has horse milk somewhere. And when they invite you, every time this like, this horse milk is just a classic.
Gabriel: What does the manufacture of the horse milk look like? Does every family ferment their own horse milk or how does that work?
Giacomo: Each family kind of lives isolated in a way, so everything you have for a living you kind of have it there basically. It’s really rare that you have something that comes from the town.
Gabriel: Yeah, understood. Everyone is self-sufficient.
Giacomo: Yeah.
Gabriel: Wow, what an experience, that you got to be a part of that ceremony is something really special.
Giacomo: Yeah, I really loved being in this situation. Like, really seeing also the simplest things but like how people do it. Seeing the tradition really something that I love about bikepacking, because I think that for me, it’s really the best way to get in touch, to connect with the people on the way, because I think there is no other way of traveling that connects you in the same way.
Gabriel: On the episode with Melanie we talked about how she had some mechanical issues and had to get them solved in a small village that had only very basic tools. Did you have any mechanical issues and if so how did you go about getting them repaired?
Giacomo: Yeah, I remember listening to the podcast about the yeah, when you were talking about the ghetto tubeless. I really love that one. Ghetto tubeless, now it’s always in my mind.
Gabriel: Yeah, I love that too. That was a good line that Melanie had.
Giacomo: You were talking about Mongolia or in general in South America?
Gabriel: We haven’t gotten to South America yet.I mean, Mongolia you could be really in the middle of nowhere and I was just curious if your bike held up? Your bike is loaded, the roads are… they’re not really roads at all.
Giacomo: Honestly, I was really worried about this.
Gabriel: Yeah, I would be too.
Giacomo: I was bringing a lot of spare parts. I was bringing also like a spare disc, a spare brake, a spare caliper. The cables for the brake, the cables for the shifter. Then I mean if I think about it now, I mean it was a bit exaggerated. In total it was like 25 days, so it was not so long, and I mean I checked the bike really well before going for it. I was lucky nothing happened. In some situation, if something happened, I don’t know how I would have gotten out of that. I think I like to do some adventures by bike, you can prepare it as much as you want, but at some point you have to kind of say okay I’m just going for it, because if you start really thinking about all the things that could go wrong, and things can go wrong, I mean you just don’t do anything.
Gabriel: Right, right. I think there’s a balance between being paralyzed and not doing anything versus not being prepared at all. It seems silly now that you had all of those spare parts, but believe me you would have felt really good about having that extra gear if you had a cable snap, or something like that, and had to replace it. You never know what’s going to happen but I’m glad to hear that you made it without major troubles.
Giacomo: For me it was an amazing journey.
Gabriel: And was that in 2022?
Giacomo: No, 2023. I already decided I wanted to go for the big adventure, like in South America, so I was like, yeah, maybe I should just save up for that and blah blah, but then I was like, okay, I have these holidays. I really want to go to Mongolia so let’s just go for it. And it would be really like also test and to understand better how could be a remote bikpacking journey and I was really happy I did it honestly.
Gabriel: You already had the dream to go to South America, but you hadn’t quit your job so you had a holiday and you went to Mongolia. But, as we know, you did end up in South America so you did have to quit your job, right?
Giacomo: Yeah, I mean that part that was like basically a few months before the departure, really felt unreal. I only said what I was going to do to my family, maybe one year before. My parents were kind of shocked. I mean, I think my mother they didn’t sleep for like five days. They kind of understood, later, that this was really something that made me happy. A few months before the departure I was saying to my friends, yeah, I’m just going for this bike journey like this, and I’m just leaving my job and people are like, “Oh you’re crazy. I mean, you will lose your job, they will kill you, they will rob you.” I was like, “Okay.”
Gabriel: Okay.
Giacomo: Leaving the job was really unreal, and when I started this project, the idea was really to go from Patagonia to Alaska, so to have like a two years’ bike journey, but in the end my priorities kind of changed on the journey. Gabriel, I didn’t tell you but I’ve stayed in Italy until the end of April because there is a new project that is starting. We can maybe talk about this later.
Gabriel: A new project. Okay, this sounds very interesting.
Giacomo: Yeah, this is not the end, I tell you.
Gabriel: Cool. Okay, so your plan was to do basically the Panamericana?
Giacomo: There are some people that just do the Panamericana. I started like, okay, I want to just cycle from Patagonia to Alaska, but then when I started I just realized right away that you basically could choose two very different philosophies. Feeling like there are two kinds of like bike tours in general. The ones that are more like, okay, I want to cover this distance, I want to arrive there, so more like performance-oriented. I want to do, I don’t know, this amount of kilometers. The experience is more about cycling. I don’t know, my approach, I realized really right away that for me was really not about cycling, was not going from a point A to point B. But for me it was really about exploring, exploring myself, knowing new realities, exploring the world, the people, and I also really like going in the most remote routes you could think of. You can get to Alaska if you start cycling towards Alaska, but if you start losing yourself and then, I mean, you start doing loops in remote places and then, I don’t know, it’s very easy to lose yourself in the adventure, and it’s also the nice thing about the adventure.
Gabriel: Depends on your personality.
Giacomo: Yeah, of course.
Gabriel: Did you then start in Ushuaia?
Giacomo: Yeah, I started Ushuaia. The beginning was really hardcore, because I was really fighting with the wind. The wind was killing me, especially in Tierra del Fuego, there were like days that I couldn’t even, not push the bike, not even stand with the bike, because the wind was, I don’t know, I cannot really imagine a wind like this in any other part of the planet. I mean, that wind is something that is really absolutely insane.
Gabriel: Of course, you know that Melanie also had serious struggles against the wind, and it’s such a brutal way to start your trip.
Giacomo: The thing is that you should go north to south, but I mean, in some moments you just have to leave, I think. Like, I couldn’t wait six more months to start from Alaska. Like, you just feel like okay this is the moment to start, and if you don’t do it, then maybe you lose the shot, that’s also the thing.
Gabriel: Now I’m pulling the parallels with Melanie’s trip. Did you also do the Carretera Austral?
Giacomo: No, actually. Because that’s also really something about me that for me I had a couple of days on the Carretera Austral and the feeling I got is really something like, yeah, it’s basically what I don’t like, because was everything was asphalt, everything felt really touristic, there were a lot of people everywhere and prices were really high and it just for me bikepacking is exactly the opposite, also if you think about Mongolia, for example. For me, bikepacking is really about going remote routes, not finding anybody, you just like about adventure especially and, I don’t know, I just really felt that was not for me, so I just like switched to Argentina and like stayed more on that side. There is much more… yeah, it’s much wilder, Argentina.
Gabriel: So Argentina has the Ruta 40, the Route 40, but that’s also paved.
Giacomo: I crossed Argentina and Chile a few times, but always, okay, I’ll say, okay, what is the route that excites me? When I was getting out of Carretera Austral, I was visiting in Chile and I was going to the border with Argentina, and I basically did this route that basically is a trekking, so I was like pushing the bike for three days and a half and I was crossing like the river that was really high like this and I was thinking, okay, if something happens here, I’m basically fucked, because…
Gabriel: Right.
Giacomo: I didn’t see a person for three days and a half. It was just not fun. I mean, that’s the thing about me, that I just get always in these situations that are really not fun, or at least maybe Type 2 fun.
Gabriel: I would just point out that you say, “Well, there are a lot of people on the Carretera Austral” and that’s correct, but that’s because it’s kind of like the only, or the Ruta 40 on the Argentinian side, these are really kind of the only ways to get north to south, because there’s a lot of mountains and vegetation and completely remote areas. But you went through some of these, it sounds like.
Giacomo: Yeah.
Gabriel: Pushing your bike along.
Giacomo: Yeah, I mean, yes, I feel like maybe half of the time in the journey I pushed my bike. I like pushing the bike around the world, probably.
Gabriel: Oh gosh.
Giacomo: It’s fun to cycle but I’m really addicted to pushing the bike.
Gabriel: You might be onto something, but maybe not. You somehow as usual got into some difficulties but you made it through. You got to meet up with Melanie and Luise and then you proceeded generally north, I guess, roughly towards Alaska. But I do know from the second meeting that you had that Melanie said you also just ended up flying north and then going south, and this is all making a lot more sense now that I talk to you.
Giacomo: When I reached Santiago I was out of season. I really wanted to ride the Ruta de los Seismiles. Been passing through northern Argentina now. I will skip it. And for me it’s really important, so it’s like, okay, I just fly to Colombia and then from there I go down and, I mean, it was a really nice decision, so it was a bit rock and roll, but that’s the thing that, I mean, you decide what makes sense to you in the end as well.
Gabriel: For sure. It’s just in the previous episode, “Take the Long Way Home,” guest Eric Matthes was heading south to Florida, telling people that he was going to Alaska, and it seemed like a very unique situation. But it’s not, because you were pedaling south from Colombia and, I don’t know, telling people you were going to Alaska.
Giacomo: Yeah, honestly I still feel that I’m still going to Alaska. I just not going there straight. In life, it’s really cool I think to have journeys that maybe, I don’t know, they don’t end up maybe in a month a year but having something that can spread throughout the whole life. I know that someday I will arrive with the bike in Alaska, but I don’t know when maybe when I will be sixty. I don’t know, maybe will be like the journey of the whole life.
Gabriel: Maybe you should never get there.
Giacomo: Yeah, maybe. Sometimes just dreaming about the things and don’t accomplish them.
Gabriel: Yeah, because if you get to Alaska, even if you’re sixty, then what will you ever do? You’ll say, well, there’s nothing more to do. I got to Alaska. So if you just always keep going towards it, you may never stop.
Giacomo: And in the end, I can always say I’m going to Alaska, also if I’m going opposite direction, yeah.
Gabriel: Absolutely. So you headed south. Actually, I don’t remember where that second meeting…
Giacomo: I met with Luise and Malanie in Ecuador, where we did like the loop around Cotopaxi volcano.
Gabriel: Ah, it was Kotopaxi.
Giacomo: Was really beautiful, was really three intense days. Like Melanie Luise are incredible bikepackers. I mean, I was just always like following along, trying to survive and I mean when I was pitching the tent they were already, I don’t know, having dinner. I mean, it was just like another level. I was feeling like, yeah, like super slow, super… And also like Melanie, that at the beginning maybe she was a bit not so experienced in bikepacking, when I saw her around Cotopaxi, I was like, wow, it’s insane. I mean, the transition she made was really unbelievable. She was super expert afterwards. I was really impressed, honestly.
Gabriel: I don’t know. I think it plays into the stereotypes. You’re this Italian guy taking it slow and then here are these German women with the efficiency.
Giacomo: Yeah, German women are just going. I mean, I’m just yeah taking the slow life blah blah. The problem is just that in some moments in bikepacking you just have to go. You cannot really take this slow life, because just not an option.
Gabriel: It’s just funny to think about it, because my wife is German and so, yeah, when it comes to getting to the campground and setting up the tent and getting the equipment and getting ready, I’m so slow and she’s so fast and methodical. And I just have this image in my mind of Giacomo just trying to keep up.
Giacomo: So, very different mindset. I think like especially like Mediterranean mindset is much more yeah going around and it’s about enjoying the thing.
Gabriel: Ah, there’s time for enjoying later. Now it’s time to work!
Giacomo: Now it’s time to pitch the tent!
Gabriel: That’s hilarious.
Giacomo: So we had a really good time, honestly, and I mean, it was really one of the few times in the whole journey that I was really cycling with somebody, so I really enjoyed this moment and lots of really beautiful memories also.
Gabriel: They were finishing up their tour around that time, and did you continue going south into Peru?
Giacomo: Yes. When I was in Peru, I kind of got a problem with my stomach and I got like a Helicobacter that is like a bacteria that kind of didn’t want to go away and had a lot of problems with the stomach, so I kind of ended up staying in Huaraz for almost a month, it was really bad because, yeah, I had to go to the hospital every, I don’t know, two, three days, and the mental aspect of this was really tough because I really wanted to go and I couldn’t. When you feel bad I mean you really miss, like, being around people that love you. That was a struggle.
Gabriel: You were having to go to the hospital every few days for treatment?
Giacomo: I had to do a lot of tests, almost every one, two days like this. And they also did a gastroscopy, like an endoscopy of the stomach, so it was also pretty hardcore, and I mean in the end, you are in Peru. I mean, you are not in Switzerland. I just hope that everything goes well and I really wanted to keep going, but I just couldn’t, and I think this was probably one of the most difficult moments in the whole journey.
Gabriel: Yeah, definitely. And did you first notice it because you started to have sort of the typical symptoms like diarrhea or vomiting?
Giacomo: No, I didn’t. I mean the stomach was hurting, I was feeling kind of weak, and actually before I had another like parasite, there was Giardia, so then I mean like basically three weeks before I got better, but still there was something weird.
Gabriel: Okay.
Giacomo: I mean, when you say now for a big adventure for a big journey as we said there are always setbacks, there are always tough moments. Could be mechanical, could be physical, could be psychological as well, because I mean the psychological aspect of a journey like this is really big, and especially like now that I kind of came back for a while, it’s really maybe the most difficult aspect like the psychological one.
Gabriel: The shock.
Giacomo: Yeah, it’s not only the shock. Just that like you kind of got used to have everything on the bike and the bike is always with you. I mean, life is simple on the bike. If you want to go right, you go right. If you want to stop, you stop. And everything is pretty easy. Well, I mean, now that I’m back everything to me seems very complicated and a bit overwhelming, honestly, because, I don’t know, I have to arrange the meeting with the doctor and I have to renew my driving license that is expired. Arranging with all my friends the meeting. Everybody’s calling me and I just feel a bit confused and maybe I got used to this life on the bike but everything was a lot easier and I miss it now.
Gabriel: Well, your feelings are quite common, I think.
Giacomo: It’s really part of the journey, exactly like the amazing adventures that you live, also like the amazing down moments that you live as well. Everything is very intense, and that’s what I like about bikepacking. That you go up, you go down, but everything is super intense.
Gabriel: Every day is different and packed with adventures.
Giacomo: Yeah. I mean also the same day you can be from, “Wow, I love this life!” to “Wow, I really hate this shit!” In a few hours you can go from this to that. It’s incredible. That’s why bikepacking is the best way of living and to discover, because I mean everything is so intense. I mean living one month is like living one year of normal life.
Gabriel: But at last you recovered, there in Peru.
Giacomo: I was free to go and start cycling again. I was still actually in the therapy, taking medication but I was like now I really want to go because I cannot stay here, I just want to go. After three days what happened is that I went to the Pastoruri Glacier, that is a glacier close to Huaraz in Peru at 4,800… no, almost I think it’s 5,000. I kind of had to cross to go on the other side, to go back on a paved road. But then, what happens that when I started going down, basically out of nowhere started a super big snowstorm, and the route was actually a lot of up and down, so it was just like not downhill. And everything got super white, and at the beginning I was laughing, then I was like, okay, this situation is not nice, because I just could see only a few meters away. And my GPS died, my phone died. I found myself in a situation which I didn’t know which route I actually need to go, and this was very scary. Also I started getting wetter and wetter and also being cold, and this went on for maybe three hours, something like this. I started being scared about this situation, because I was really cold, I didn’t know where I was going. It kept snowing and there was nobody, only a few cows.
Gabriel: Cows are not very helpful in these difficult moments. They just stand there staring at you, laughing to themselves. What happened next?
Giacomo: What happened is that the sun was going down in half an hour, so I just said, okay, I cannot keep going with the darkness. I will just come here for the night, and basically I pitched my tent in the snow. But of course when I pitched the tent all the snow kind of melted. The floor became completely soaked right away, so it was just being in the water. So I basically had my my sleeping mat that was kind of floating on the water, and all the things I had were like wet, also the sleeping bag.
Gabriel: You didn’t have a tarp or anything that was waterproof that you put under, like a ground cover?
Giacomo: I had like a ground sheet but the thing is that, there was such an amount of water it’s like basically, I don’t know, if you are pitching your tent in a very shallow lake. Because it was a lot of water.
Gabriel: Wow, so you had a waterbed.
Giacomo: And it kept snowing and snowing, and I mean just to pitch that tent was very difficult, because my hands were like super cold, but I mean somehow I made it. And then I was like in this, yeah, sleeping mat that was floating, and then I would just like that with my sleeping bag super cold with all the clothes I had, and I was just waiting for the night to finish and hoping I was not going to be sick the next day, because then I would have been really fucked. And also, I mean, I was like, yeah, maybe I should just like press the GPS, because I have satellite GPS, just say okay, I just call for assistance, somebody to come here and help me, but I just thought, yeah, maybe this is not really the edge. I can still kind of make it somehow.
Gabriel: Yeah.
Giacomo: When it was, like, really early morning, like 5 a.m., there was like a motorbike that stopped by. I was like, okay, now they are gonna rob me, so I mean it’s gonna be a really a perfect moment.
Gabriel: Oh, you thought they were going to rob you? I would have been so excited.
Giacomo: I don’t know, but in that moment, the bad thoughts I think were just like really overwhelming.
Gabriel: I would have thought, somebody’s gonna save me.
Giacomo: There was this couple of Peruvian people, and they just gave me, like, a blanket, and I was like, “Yeah, but how do I give it back?” And they just said, “Okay, you can just keep it. It’s okay.” In the end, honestly, I have to say that the blanket really made a difference. That’s also something that really hit me hard. Like, also in Mongolia. People that live in a very simple way would do anything to help you. In the Western World, I think we kind of forgot a bit about health. Yeah, we’re always really scared of from the other people.
Gabriel: Yeah, I agree entirely, and that’s that is a theme that comes up in the podcast for sure.
Giacomo: And, I mean, in the end I was lucky, because the day after there was snow, but was not an incredible amount of snow, and the day was kind of cloudy so it was all right, and I just like got all my shit together I just went. And when I saw the asphalt, I don’t know, it was just like landing on Earth after months in deep space, yeah. I knew that I was kind of alive and I would’t have died there. I think like also bikepacking, especially facing this hardcore situation, show you how weak you are, how vulnerable you are in the end, and how we control everything in our life, from the temperature to having a warm shower, everything. And then, I mean, this situation, they kind of remembered that when you fight against nature, you just a small ant that is trying to survive and you can die very easily if you don’t play it well.
Gabriel: Has your mother found out about this story?
Giacomo: Yes, yes. You can kind of say that in a way that is much more acceptable. Like, “Yeah, I was cold and I pitched my tent.” I was like no, I went in a snow storm at 5,000 meters and I was soaked and I was really scared I wouldn’t make it to the next day.
Gabriel: I mean, it sounds like you were quite far out there, but it’s interesting that you decided not to push the button on the Garmin inReach. Is that what it was?
Giacomo: No, it’s actually a Spot. It was a Spot 3. I mean, I don’t have the two-way communication. I only have the one. I just say okay I’m good or…
Gabriel: Or I’m not good.
Giacomo: Yeah.
Gabriel: But yeah, you decided not to push the button, so you really pushed yourself quite far in that adventure.
Giacomo: Maybe I am stupid as well, but I don’t know, I just saw it in a way that pushing the button is like, okay, I cannot handle it by myself and, I mean, when you get yourself in situation, you cannot handle, I feel kind of maybe a bit ashamed of myself. Okay, you went into this, now you have to get out of this. Otherwise you’re just a stupid that is going around that… I mean, sometimes bad things also can happen and it’s not your fault.
Gabriel: I understand. Oh wow, that is quite a story. Since you got to participate in this fermented milk ritual in Mongolia, did you also get to participate in any rituals or just get-togethers with South Americans?
Giacomo: Yeah, for example, especially in Colombia and Ecuador, they used to drink a lot of chicha. That is basically fermented corn, and they have this drink that is slightly alcoholic. I think in some way the concept is the same of the fermented milk in Mongolia. And also in Colombia they also have guarapo, so fermented from sugarcane, and they have this slightly alcoholic drink that is very cheap and people drink the whole day when they’re working outside. So, yeah, I think like fermented the alcoholic stuff, it’s really all around the world.
Gabriel: Did you try the yerba mate in Argentina?
Giacomo: I mean, actually I got really a big fan of yerba mate. Also now, I brought my mate and the yerba from Argentina, and I’m still like using it here, because at the same time yeah it’s a really something that connect the people.
Gabriel: Nice! You had mentioned the Ruta de los Seismiles in Argentina, that you had skipped it at first, but then after Peru you went back to Argentina because you really wanted to do it.
Giacomo: That’s right, yes.
Gabriel: And this was another journey into the unknown. Can you describe the Ruta de los Seismiles, because it is as remote as it gets.
Giacomo: Yeah, so I mean on bikepacking.com, it’s rated as 10 out of 10 of difficulty, because you have to bring almost 20 days of food on the bike, and also almost three days of water, so maybe 12, 13 liters of water, and also the fuel to cook, simultaneously on the bike. So imagine like a bike that is really heavy, that can be also 50, 60 kilograms, and like total solitude for like days and days. For 20 days, I mean, you’re pushing the bike in the sand. You have very strong winds that of course are headwinds, because the tailwinds I don’t know where they went. Also, the problem with tailwinds is just that you don’t really realize that you have a tailwind when you have a tailwind. The fact that you have no signal and the route is very remote, but at the same time it was really a sublime experience. You really feel that you’re doing a crazy adventure. The road, it has two parts. The northern part that goes from San Pedro de Atacama until Fiambalá in Argentina, and this is like the hardcore part that is also the longest. And then the south part, that is more rideable, more honest. Also, you don’t have to carry all this food, you don’t have to carry all this water. I really focused on the northern part. I mean the landscapes, you really feel like you’re like on Mars. I was like a machine, because you really feel, okay, what do I have to do to survive? And this is the only thing that matters. Where is the water, where is the food, where is the place to sleep? And that’s it. You are often fighting with the winds to pitch the tent. I think it really pushed me to my limit from every point of view, physical, mental. And honestly I didn’t think would have been this hard. Like, honestly. And I mean, you really have moments you’re like, okay, if now I don’t feel well or I have a problem with the bike, now the situation would be really, really hardcore. So coming back also to what we said before is like, that if you think about all the things that can go wrong, you just don’t do this, especially alone. Especially when you have maybe only two, three liters of water, and you know that if you don’t reach the next source of water somehow, maybe you have a problem with the bike, the things can just, like, end really badly, because water also is another thing that we always give for granted, but when you really don’t have it kind of measuring every sip, you really don’t want to finish the water, it’s really a different game. The solitude that you live on the route is really something that is unique.
Gabriel: During those 20 days, did you see a single person?
Giacomo: Yes, I did, because I mean now the route is not remote as it was. There are some mining camps. It was a Sunday and I passed through this mining camp and they were like, “Oh, we’re doing an asado (so we’re doing a barbecue) like, today.” Do you want to stay?” And I was like, “Oh yes, I want to stay!”
Gabriel: “Hmm. Let me think about it.”
Giacomo: Yeah, after 10 days of just eating instant noodles and like peanuts, I was like, “Wow, some real food would be really nice.” That was one, and then I met this lady that lives alone, like, really in a remote place that is a few hundred kilometers from the closest town. I think 200, and she has like a farm where she has like goats and like llamas and all these kind of things, and it’s basically like an oasis in the middle of the desert. She’s 72. Sometimes her family are coming to visit her, but she just lived there by herself, without anything.
Gabriel: Incredible! How did she react when she saw you?
Giacomo: She kind of used to, like, people doing the Ruta de los Seismiles. Maybe there are like, maybe, five, six people that did it this year. It is not a lot. She was a very kind person and I stayed with her a couple of days. And also one experience that was unbelievable is just that her son arrived the second day, and they were like okay today we kill a llama (a llama). So they kill the llama the cruel way, I mean that’s how you do for the meat, and then one hour later we were, like, having a barbecue with the llama. It was probably the best barbecue, the best meat of my life, maybe because I was eating just instant noodles, but the meat was so fresh. I don’t know, I just cannot explain it, really. It was a beautiful experience.
Gabriel: Unforgettable.
Giacomo: I only realized how deep I was in the journey inside myself when I reached the first town after these 20 days. I started talking with the people and talking with my family. You spend like days and days just alone, just like fighting, I mean I was also pushing the bike in the sand for like full days, and also like one after the other, so I mean, the mental friction you reach, it’s really high, because every day you’re tired and you have to kind of do better in a way. Now actually I’m working on a documentary about this, because for me it was a really big experience. So let’s stay tuned about this because I’m really happy to share also what I lived.
Gabriel: Yeah, it sounds amazing. Let’s see. First of all, how can people find out more about what you’ve done? You have probably catalogued a bunch of previous tours. Obviously, you have an Instagram, and what is that?
Giacomo: Yeah it’s like, @cycling.beyond.
Gabriel: Okay.
Giacomo: You can also find me on YouTube, and we have a channel. My name is Giacomo Turco, name and surname, and then cycling beyond. Because the concept of “beyond” is something that really also appeals to me, that defines me, and yeah, the idea of exploring new frontiers and pushing your limit, that’s really me.
Gabriel: It really sounds like it. And we will, of course, put links in the show notes to those. Do you have videos of Iceland or Mongolia or other parts of South America already on the YouTube channel?
Giacomo: Yes, I have a content, I have a lot of content still from South America. I’m really behind with the editing, because I kind of live too many adventures, I feel like, and now I mean kind of really getting all this stuff together making sense with them, it’s a challenge. I know that can inspire a lot also other people other travelers, and also yeah, now I can tell you about my next project, because as I said maybe I will arrive to Alaska in a few years, maybe I will never arrive to Alaska, but I changed my mind because I think that South America for me was amazing and discovering South America was beautiful, also because I speak Spanish. It’s also talking with the people, seeing the landscapes has been really amazing, but I don’t know I kind of didn’t feel the same appeal for North America at this point of my life, and I kind of feel I really wanted to push my limits and know new cultures. And now I will stay here in Italy until the end of April, because then the 27th of April, I’m flying to Cape Town in South Africa, and the idea is to cross Africa from Cape Town to Tangier in North Morocco, going on the west coast.
Gabriel: Wow!
Giacomo: That is the most remote and adventurous kind of route in Africa. And yeah, I think we’ll be really extreme, much more extreme than America, I think, from a social and most environmental point of view, maybe. Yeah, I’m really excited for this. I think it’s the ultimate ride into the unknown.
Gabriel: I can’t believe that you’re already doing this in six weeks’ time.
Giacomo: Yeah, also I can’t believe it, and honestly I’m very stressed at this point, because I’m coming back I have to check all the gear, study the new trajectory, see all the people and, I don’t know, it’s really everything is a mess.
Gabriel: And I think there’s also more challenges in terms of paperwork and visas and things like that.
Giacomo: Yeah, also. That’s right. I mean, it’s expensive also to get all the visas, because in South America, you just arrive, everything is free. And in Africa it’s a lot of money.
Gabriel: I really want to have an episode talking about Africa, because so far there hasn’t been a single episode on Africa. So, I don’t know. It might take you a year, but… So actually, how long do you think it will take?
Giacomo: I mean, the idea is one year but I mean, also something I understood is just that it doesn’t make a lot of sense, trying to give an estimate about places and distances, because there, I mean, only things change when you are like into it, and so I just accept this.
Gabriel: I think you should test out. When somebody asks you – because you will be asked thousands of times – “Where are you going?” I think you should just tell somebody, “Alaska” and just watch the expression on their face.
Giacomo: I think actually it’s pretty cool. Then I mean, it’s not like just one year to your journey, just the journey of a lifetime. I mean, it’s a cliché, but the journey is really not about the destination. What really matters is the journey itself. What you live, what you feel on the route, and arriving is not really the big deal. Yeah, maybe we catch up where I can bet from Africa, if I get back.
Gabriel: Oh, come on! Yeah for sure. I think that would be amazing.
Gabriel: The transcript for this episode is available on The Accidental Bicycle Tourist website. I welcome feedback and suggestions for this and other episodes. You’ll find a link to all contact information in the show notes. If you would like to rate or review the show, you can do that on your favorite podcast platform. You can also follow the podcast on Instagram. Thank you to Anna Lindenmeier for the cover artwork and to Timothy Shortell for the original music. This podcast would not be possible without continuous support from my wife, Sandra. And thank you so much for listening. I hope the episode will inspire you to get out and see where the road leads you.
Gabriel: So we definitely don’t want her listening to the podcast.
Giacomo: My mother? Do you want to interview my mother?
Show Notes
Giacomo’s Instagram is @cycling.beyond and his YouTube channel is also called Cycling Beyond.